Come on then, America, what happened?

[Smithy]

But Trump's election really doesn't tick me off at all. It was a fair election and the people voted for him. What really ticks me off is how Anti-Trump supporters are protesting completely democratic elections, some even inciting violence (which they denounced Trump supporters from doing) on people who voted for him.

This sort of bollocks is what pisses me off about people/politics today.

Easiest way to explain it. I don't think all Trump supporters are thick racists just because a couple of them are. I don't refer to them all as 'they', I don't judge them off the actions of a few.

It's a minute thing, it's the wording of it, but the whole "THEY" did this, "THEY" did that. Did THEY? Did the very people who denounced Trump supporters for their violence go out and start attacking people? Do you know that for sure? Does that mean everybody else should be judged the same as them?

They're also not protesting the election results (honestly this is just all the garbage we had over here post-Brexit vote), you don't just wait for the results of an election and then sit on your hands and say nothing because what you believe in doesn't matter any more. If anything, it's even more important to be vocal about it to stand up for what you believe in and make sure your voice is heard so it doesn't get overlooked.

Oh, and as bad as Trump is and will be, the bigger worry is Pence, Giuliani and that **** from Breitbart being in his ear.

 

[Snoo]

This video sums up a lot of left leaning folks but does have a large number of good points.

 

[Bat Fastard]

This is coming from a centrist Puertorrican that cant vote.
Of course, most has been said on the reason he won. My theory, however, is how being super PC really screwed over the DNC. Not to mention screwing over the better candidate in the primaries.

But Trump's election really doesn't tick me off at all. It was a fair election and the people voted for him. What really ticks me off is how Anti-Trump supporters are protesting completely democratic elections, some even inciting violence (which they denounced Trump supporters from doing) on people who voted for him.

I'm not saying that there wasn't any violence on Trump's side cause there was on both sides and always will be. But when supporters from one side say that the other is intolerant while being intolerant to other political views themselves, they just come across as entitled.

I personally didn't support Trump during the elections but I'm hoping the best for him.

This, this, this and more of this. In my opinion, I think Trump and his voters recieved more hate and bigotry in the 48 hours following the election combined than any true, actual hate Trump dished out during his whole campaign. I am tired of people claiming Republicans and Trump voters to be dumb, racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, intolerant or all of the above. Most of them are none of those in any way. The way I view it, no matter if you're a Republican or Democrat, or if you voted for Trump or Hillary, you should want Trump to succeed. Wanting him to fail as president is like wanting the pilot to crash the airplane we're ALL flying in.

 

[Snoo]

To be honest Bat, there has been hate directed in both ways. Unfortunately, a number of those bad eggs have reared their ugly heads and stood out in the media to 'represent' all. The hate flows both ways and the blatant acts of racism have skyrocketed, only forwarding the narrative along.

However, I will point out, that a racism is something many people thought was a 'dead' issue in this country. Given what has transpired, that is far from the case in my opinion.

 

[spicy]

I agree with Dave, this was very similar to Brexit - I believe many Trump votes were protest votes, just like a lot of leave votes were. People want REAL change and to shake up the current system which is failing many people. People have been sick of hearing of change that never really comes and they just get more of the same. For better or worst Trump and leave both offered this, Hilary and remain did not.

During Brexit if you wanted to vote Leave you were immediately branded a 'racist' and an 'idiot', same goes for Remain voters who were branded 'liberal lefties' and 'out of touch'. But the arguments just got callous with potshots, even one MP daring to say 'the people have had enough of experts telling them what to think' (Good luck at your next doctors appointment) but it struck a chord with voters and think it helped push people to go against the government. Same with Trump.

This is so true. Crazy how in both cases you were frowned upon for being a Trump or a Leave voter, yet Remain and Hillary voters have actually turned out to be the minority, which no one would have predicted before the votes were counted. I hope the media have learned they need to be more cautious before branding particular sets of voters 'racist', 'bigots' etc or you can create a backlash and a lot more protest votes. No chance of that I guess.

A lot of people wanted big change and now they have got it. Politics certainly will never be the same after Brexit and Trump.. What happens next no one really knows but we are all along for the ride.

 

[Sythe]

I know this is kind of random, but I just realized... Wouldn't it be funny if the wall was built by illegal immigrants? Ya know, since a lot of them are construction workers? Lol.

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[Bat Fastard]

To be honest Bat, there has been hate directed in both ways. Unfortunately, a number of those bad eggs have reared their ugly heads and stood out in the media to 'represent' all. The hate flows both ways and the blatant acts of racism have skyrocketed, only forwarding the narrative along.

However, I will point out, that a racism is something many people thought was a 'dead' issue in this country. Given what has transpired, that is far from the case in my opinion.

I can agree with that. Both sides have people who represent their side in a bad, negative and stereotypical way. Overall I think 2016 has been the worst year as far as social divide is concerned in a long time here in America. This election and the results didn't help whatsoever.

 

[Hyde]

One thing to also raise is the cascading effect Trump's election will have on other western government elections where right-wing, domestic-first politicians will be running.

For instance, before the U.S. election, Marine Le Pen and her National Front party were seen as outsiders for the French presidential election that will come in spring 2017. Post Trump however, the National Front party feels very emboldened, with Le Pen all of a sudden have a political backwind for French-first policies.

 

[Snoo]

I know this is kind of random, but I just realized... Wouldn't it be funny if the wall was built by illegal immigrants? Ya know, since a lot of them are construction workers? Lol.

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You know that whole 'Trump supporters are racists.." thing? That comment doesn't help..

 

[Sythe]

You know that whole 'Trump supporters are racists.." thing? That comment doesn't help..

Not really. Construction is one of the main industries for illegal immigrants in Texas and New Mexico. I'm not being racist, I'm using actual facts and statistics to prove my point.

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[Snoo]

Not really. Construction is one of the main industries for illegal immigrants in Texas and New Mexico. I'm not being racist, I'm using actual facts and statistics to prove my point.

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I know exactly what you meant as I live here and know many of the demographics of the southern United States but many folks who may not could find that racist. Plus.. in a topic talking about racism as something prevalent during this whole election process, making a ill advised joke about illegals in the USA, many of which are of Latin decent, MAY not be the best thing to do. Also, given your point is to essentially put anyone who is not a documented immigrant to work on a near meaningless wall could be viewed as borderline slavery.

"I didn't intend it that way" is a weak defense for something that could be viewed, especially by Latinos in general, as a weak and porous defense to a bad joke. Ignorance doesn't give you a pass.

 

[Sythe]

I know exactly what you meant as I live here and know many of the demographics of the southern United States but many folks who may not could find that racist. Plus.. in a topic talking about racism as something prevalent during this whole election process, making a ill advised joke about illegals in the USA, many of which are of Latin decent, MAY not be the best thing to do. Also, given your point is to essentially put anyone who is not a documented immigrant to work on a near meaningless wall could be viewed as borderline slavery.

"I didn't intend it that way" is a weak defense for something that could be viewed, especially by Latinos in general, as a weak and porous defense to a bad joke. Ignorance doesn't give you a pass.

Honestly I don't care if people want to think that I'm racist. I'm not going to refrain from saying something just because it might trigger someone. If people want to label me as a racist because of their ignorance of facts then that's their problem.

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[Snoo]

Honestly I don't care if people want to think that I'm racist. I'm not going to refrain from saying something just because it might trigger someone. If people want to label me as a racist because of their ignorance of facts then that's their problem.

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And you just proved what I find wrong with many right leaning conservatives. Your utter disregard for anyone besides yourself and your bubble is mind boggling. You claim not to be racist but say things that may be racist but then say '**** those guys' because they may think I'm racist? Easy way to solve this? Don't even wonder into the realm of being racist.. not because it may 'trigger' someone.. because AS A HUMAN BEING, IT'S THE RIGHT ****ING THING TO DO. YOU and people like you are the reason why we have people protesting in the streets, why Black Lives Matter was created, why people hate Conservatives morally!

Now I have little doubt your intentions were pure and that no harm was meant but when confronted with the fact that it may even bother another person, you say '**** all and **** everyone'? Come on. Be a damn human being. A lot of people on the right are asking those on the left to give them and Trump a chance.. let us him try it out.. but when these types of conversations have been uttered by not only him but by his supporters as well, you can see why it can be INCREDIBLY hard to find any sort of common ground or even want to mildly support those people and their President.

 

[Hyde]

No one thinks no one is racist. And what's more, as we review the election data, it's clear Trump was not voting in by a racist fervor. Rather, Trump's win was a result of:

1. Voters not being pleased with their candidates, and voting more for third party candidates. (A la Ross Perot poaching votes from HW Bush in 1992)
2. Clinton not activating the Obama coalition of voters, especially minorities.
3. White people without college degrees (union workers, blue collar, etc.) fleeing to the GOP.

Discussing racism is a far deeper issue, but the priority of voters in this election was rather job creation, economy, and fear of global trade leaving behind American workers.

 

[Sythe]

And you just proved what I find wrong with many right leaning conservatives. Your utter disregard for anyone besides yourself and your bubble is mind boggling. You claim not to be racist but say things that may be racist but then say ':emoji_zipper_mouth: those guys' because they may think I'm racist? Easy way to solve this? Don't even wonder into the realm of being racist.. not because it may 'trigger' someone.. because AS A HUMAN BEING, IT'S THE RIGHT :emoji_zipper_mouth:ING THING TO DO. YOU and people like you are the reason why we have people protesting in the streets, why Black Lives Matter was created, why people hate Conservatives morally!

Now I have little doubt your intentions were pure and that no harm was meant but when confronted with the fact that it may even bother another person, you say ':emoji_zipper_mouth: all and :emoji_zipper_mouth: everyone'? Come on. Be a damn human being. A lot of people on the right are asking those on the left to give them and Trump a chance.. let us him try it out.. but when these types of conversations have been uttered by not only him but by his supporters as well, you can see why it can be INCREDIBLY hard to find any sort of common ground or even want to mildly support those people and their President.

Yeah well if someone is actually that stupid to know that my intentions were perfectly non racist then I don't care. I don't care about your feelings to that extent, I care about being practical and normal. I'm not going to go by the liberal agenda of some special snowflake that could get offended. That's not how life works. These people should learn to stop being crybabies and man up.

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[SaiyanHajime]

I just want to point out - the number and impact of illegal immigrants in the USA is far less than those concerned about them think it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States#Impacts

Most of the "illegal" immigrants you're talking about are actually perfectly legal immigrants. People just assume that anyone Mexican is illegal. I've witnessed this first hand in America, people literally referring to them as "illegals" with no reason to suspect they are other than their race!

Also, lets point something out here. Who is really to blame for anyone illegal being in the USA? The businesses employing and paying non-legal US citizens under the table, they are the problem. If there was no incentive to come to the USA, they wouldn't ****ing come. Those companies are not just guilty of hiring non legals and paying them lower wages than they would arguably have to for US citizens, they're literally committing fraud by not paying their taxes. The obsession with the immigrants themselves is racist, because it is ignoring the illegal actions of the American citizens - businessmen, people like Trump - enabling the problem.

Also, Sythe... In response to your message above, please refer back to this post. Or don't. Whatever.

 

[Smithy]

As per your first point Joey, it's the same in the UK, I've not got the time to find the link to it but basically the UK electorate at a whole is so un-educated (possibly too strong a word, misled may be better) when it comes to politics, hell, when it comes to facts in general.

Jist of it was basically that as a whole it's thought that there's far more immigration than there actually is, far more benefits claimaints, that benefits takes up a far bigger % of the budget than it does.

 

[Snoo]

Yeah well if someone is actually that stupid to know that my intentions were perfectly non racist then I don't care. I don't care about your feelings to that extent, I care about being practical and normal. I'm not going to go by the liberal agenda of some special snowflake that could get offended. That's not how life works. These people should learn to stop being crybabies and man up.

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So.. racism is a tool of liberals to push their agenda?

Or.. not? As.. you know.. I'm black.. and experiences racism quite regularly and can assure you, regardless of my party affiliation, that **** is real. No special ****ing snowflakes here. And not giving a **** about racism makes YOU part of the problem with this country.

 

[PeskyTrimBrake]

People, chill. We can have a civil discussion on politics without resorting to just blaming people.

 

[Snoo]

People, chill. We can have a civil discussion on politics without resorting to just blaming people.

You're right. We can until you state racism is part of the liberal agenda. I'm fine discussing both sides of the spectrum, as the first 2.5 pages happened.. but I'll call you on your bull****.