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WTF Merlin?

It is worth noting that Merlin's model is different to Paultons in that there's limited hidden fees.

I went to Legoland recently. Two adults was £39 each ..but then the parking is extra, £12. That's £90 overall. Fastrack is then extra on top of that if required.

Paultons is £45 online, that's it. Parking is included, there's not fasttrack. Two adults is £90.

The Paultons model puts me in a better mood, knowing that fees are clear and upfront. It is cleaner, quieter and better run.
 
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Heth said:
It is worth noting that Merlin's model is different to Paultons in that there's limited hidden fees.

I went to Legoland recently. Two adults was £39 each. That's...but then the parking is extra, £12. That's £90 overall. Fastrack is then extra on top of that if required.

Paultons is £45 online, that's it. Parking is included, there's not fasttrack. Two adults is £90.

The Paultons model puts me in a better mood, knowing that fees are clear and upfront. It is cleaner, quieter and better run.
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Paulton's are absolutely doing it right!!!

(BTW, even with parking, Towers next Saturday works out at £80, so still 12.5% more expensive at Paultons.... And on a side note, £12!!! WTF, I haven't paid it for years due to my pass, but seriously, WTF???)

Brings us onto passes though... Paulton's Passes range from £165 off peak / restricted to £280 unrestricted... Alton Towers' passes range from £59 parent and toddler pass, through £99 for an off peak pass, to £139 for a gold pass with free parking. (Worth noting that gold still excludes super peak days, like fireworks and Christmas.) Even the off peak Merlin pass, which allows access to ever park, is still cheaper than Paultons, at only £99. The 'Platinum Pass,' which is supposed to be the ultimate pass, for every Merlin attraction in the country, is only £19 more than Paultons, at £299 vs £280. Renewal for the 'Merlin Platinum Pass' is actually cheaper than Paulton's at £229 vs £253!!!

It's mad to think that a local family of 4 with 2 children under 5, could enter Alton Towers every school day of the year, for just £118 per year. You couldn't buy a single off peak pass for one person at Paulton's for that!!!
 
There is one more thing that comes with low ticket prices: the guest experience takes a serious hit. I’d rather pay 60£ for a park with 10-20 minutes queues across the board than pay 30£ and wait twice as long.
Incentivising large crowds comes with a worse experience for everyone.

However, I should mention that twice as many guest are (in theory) twice as likely to visit restaurants/ purchase food so halving ticket prices might turn out to me more profitable.

The question is: with most guest having a sub-par experience, how likely is it for them to return? How many won’t go anymore/as often because they were met with long queues, crowded pathways, bad reliability, mediocre ops and early close?
 
Trax said:
There is one more thing that comes with low ticket prices: the guest experience takes a serious hit. I’d rather pay 60£ for a park with 10-20 minutes queues across the board than pay 30£ and wait twice as long.
Incentivising large crowds comes with a worse experience for everyone.

However, I should mention that twice as many guest are (in theory) twice as likely to visit restaurants/ purchase food so halving ticket prices might turn out to me more profitable.

The question is: with most guest having a sub-par experience, how likely is it for them to return? How many won’t go anymore/as often because they were met with long queues, crowded pathways, bad reliability, mediocre ops and early close?
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My wife and I went to both Paultons and Legoland 2 weeks apart with our child in June. Same price visits (as noted above).

We came away from Paultons happy and got value from it. We did 13 rides in the day, despite it being a weekend. We ate in a spacious air conditioned eatery.

Legoland was too busy (we didn't even go on a weekend), facilities were poor for children our kid's age (few toilets, where Paultons had bany changing in abundance). Legoland looked tired. When it came to eat with a picnic there were no available benches. We ate on concrete steps along with about 30 other people. We did 3 rides all day due to queues. My wife refuses to go again.

If this experience is similar to others' experiences, then we will not return to Legoland, but will happily spend to return to Paultons despite the cost, because we go value from the money we spent.
 
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JoshC. said:
It's a nuanced one right now for Merlin I reckon.

Thorpe have been open all summer until 7pm. The last 2 hours of the day the park is notably and significantly quieter. As a local, I've popped in semi-regularly for those last two hours, and I can easily get a good chunk of the majors rides down in those 2 hours going at a leisurely pace.

Now obviously there's layers to it. Quiet doesn't equal bad. In fact, it can be good as it'll increase rides per guest figures, and satisfaction for those who stay that time. And word of mouth might spread.
But equally, if the numbers are saying it's not profitable (enough) to stay open that late, you can understand why parks aren't choosing to. I think it's very 50/50 whether they'll open until 7pm daily next summer given the current numbers in my opinion.

I think there's further issues in that there's still a big culture thing of people viewing the evening as a time for dinner or being at home in the UK. You've got 'days out' and 'nights out', but that 5-9pm area is what Brits view as travelling time, eating time and/or prepping to go out for the night. It's something the UK industry has had to battle against for years and, outside Halloween and Bonfire events, I don't think they've come up with an answer.

There's also the problem that these later closes are still rare. So people expect to leave at like 5pm or whatever, because that's the expectation of when they close. If a park had 7-8pm closes as standard, maybe more people would naturally end up staying.

Bit off topic I know, but closing times / operating hours are extremely nuanced and have no real simple solution
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I agree it's nuanced, and obviously they need to find a balance. But I also think 7pm is too early. I would open until 9pm and then guests are more likely to buy food and drink while in there. But it also needs commitment, so that people know it's open that late and can go after school or work, or whatever and get used to the idea. It's a long-term vision that many places don't have the bottle to see through.

On other discussions above about land being leased, it's a business decision I don't understand. Must play well with the markets but we've seen numerous retailers and restaurants go bust in recent years thanks to this very model. The actual business doing OK, but can't afford the rent, and then there's just hundreds of vacant sites where Brewdog or Thwaites pubs used to be.
 
I'm not sure if it's been previously mentioned, but the economic turn the UK has had since the pandemic in comparison to other countries, particularly in Europe may be a reason why Merlin's prices have remained stagnant for so long, and instead of price rises, extensive cost cutting has taken place instead.

If they raise their prices, especially as we're teetering on the edge of another recession, the target demographic may simply not think the park is worth the fleeting disposable income they may have available. This is amplified by the fact the prices have remained the same for so long, that if a price rise were to happen, there is very little new incentive to come to the park. It's a catch 22. Income is decreased because every damn thing is outsourced, but there is no new draw for a visitor to revisit if there were to be a price rise.

As has been said, the amenities available at the parks don't favour a long day in the same way European or American parks do. The food is sub-par and expensive and unless you go to the hotels, there's not many areas with catering/refreshments that provide a place for quiet respite during a hectic day of screams and queues.
 
StevenX said:
A bit off topic here, but this is a really interesting problem and got me thinking about how Universal will tackle it. The planning documents mention quite late closes throughout the year (not to say they would open that late in reality). The Orlando parks are routinely open until 9pm or 10pm - but later closes might just not work in that way in the UK.

Having said all this, I don't think the UK parks have done a good job, or even really put much effort into this. Halloween shows that this can work as you say, but they've really not tried any special events or food and drink offerings to keep guests on site through the evening - although Thorpe did try a bit last year with their sunset/night ride marketing. Part of it is that the food and drink is so bad and expensive at the parks that people really wouldn't want to stay for dinner, particularly if they've already had an expensive, disappointing lunch there.
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A bit off topic but a couple of years before Oakwood closed I was at one of the after dark events and it was busy. Was badly run because nowhere open to get food and drink, so spent money on fireworks and no attempt to profit from the additional custom, but it shows people will stay out. I also think Universal will be good for prices, once they are charging the future equivalent of £120, £70 at Thorpe will seem good value and they'll be able to invest in a better experience: providing they make it until then!
 
VonRolland said:
Good news! Wickerman reopens tomorrow! But its only open 1000-1400 which is a classic Merlin move
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I ascertain it’s probably due to some sort of technical problem which is going to take a few more days to be rectified.

Also, it should be noted that the ride returns to full operating hours on 2nd September.
 
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